Who Are You?
“The ship wherein Theseus and the youth of Athens returned from Crete had thirty oars, and was preserved by the Athenians down even to the time of Demetrius Phalereus, for they took away the old planks as they decayed, putting in new and stronger timber in their places, insomuch that this ship became a standing example among the philosophers, for the logical question of things that grow; one side holding that the ship remained the same, and the other contending that it was not the same.”(Plutarch, 1st — 2nd century CE)
Welcome to Ije’s debating club.
Topic; Is an object still the same object if all of its original parts have been changed?
The ship of Theseus, also known as Theseus' paradox, is a thought experiment that raises the question of whether an object that has had all of its original components changed remains fundamentally the same object. This paradox was first attributed to Plutarch in Life of Theseus in the late first century.
Another example of the ship one is the French version; 'Jeannot’s knife', where the question of a knife that has had its blade changed fifteen times and its handle fifteen times, but is still the same knife.
Pause and ponder!!
I stumble on these things and they begin to mess with my head.
This is one for the debating team would you not agree? I was part of the debating club in secondary school; partly for the mental stimulation and partly for the excuse to leave school without breaking any rules when we went to competitions.
So, if the soul of the ship is the engine and it's the original part that remains, is it the same ship even if all the other parts have either been changed or refurbished?
On the proposing side, Aristotle says that the “what-it-is” of a thing is its formal cause, so the ship of Theseus is the ‘same’ ship, because the formal cause, or design, does not change, even though the matter used to construct it may vary with time. If the idea of its design or its function is the same then it's the same even if its parts have changed
The opposing side says nonsense, “if two ships are built using the same design and type of wood at the same time if one is destroyed the surviving one cant be said to be the same ship even if they were created to do the same thing.
Fair!
Let's leave inanimate things like ships and knives for a moment, are we humans, still, the same people inside if we have gone through situations that have moulded us, shifted our mindset and coloured our beliefs?
If you have learned and unlearned things along with way, are you the same person at the start of the process?
Does our essence remain all through life or are we transformed as we move through life?
What is the real you?
Is there a real you?
It's been argued that objects are different from humans in that humans have memories that connect them to parts of themselves including their past which is the link to our “sameness’.
But a person that has an accident and losses his memory is he the same person he was before the accident?
I listened to an episode of Secular Buddhism a podcast by Noah Rasheta, a while back on the sense of self as something we see as permanent or fixed.
There is no permanent/ fixed version of us?
We are all fluid and constantly changing. The you that you are when you are happy is different from when you’re sad or a mum or wife, an employee, a boss, sister, or friend, raging with hormones when on your period or pregnant is all fluid. Are you the same person when you’re when you were 5 versus 30 or 70?
Are we not showing a different version of ourselves based on the situation? Which of these versions is the real us?
He explained that a river, which we see as a fixed thing, is constantly changing because the water that flows through it is continually changing.
He explains that it's our ego that deceives us into thinking that we are fixed. E.g when we say things like “this is who I am”.
Carol Dweck’s book; Mindset: The New Psychology of Success, which dwells on fixed and growth mindsets, is a good book to read to understand our fluidity and ability to grow, morph and change.
We, myself especially have caused me so much pain by having a fixed view of who I am or should be and I keep chasing this image instead of reality.
What do you think? Do we change or do we remain the same?
Keep going,
Ije
We have an adage " the one that says " yam taste sweeter when roasted" and the other that says " yam taste sweeter when boiled" are both correct. Me talking proverb. Lol. Perspective is everything.
Ije, like you rightly captured, experiences, new knowledge, reasoning, emotions etc tells who we are per time per place. I stand with the opposers. An object whose original part has been changed or replaced, irrespective of whether their function remains intact, is no longer the same. The idea of function can be a topic for another time but in terms of sameness it is not. So as humans, we are not constant. Our thoughts, experiences, new insights etc cause new patterns of behaviour and responses from us. In terms of matter- flesh, wood, metal, etc we are the same, but in terms of content we are not, and we keep changing.
It’s been a minute I dropped something here…. Mehn!! This really made me have a debate with myself.
In summery, I have come to a conclusion that whatever evolves it’s no longer the same.
Just as our phones iOS that needs to be updated, for us to do better as humans we need to make changes. Once a huge change/update is made, that thing can never be the same.
Be it, productivity, engagement, behavior, function, speed, etc. It changes the results of things. Ie Situation, or activity.
We all need to throw the word "this is who I am" it’s just an excuse, to run away from an uncomfortable certain upgrade one needs. Just change that bad habit already.
Just my thoughts lol.